Slipknot percussionist M. Shawn “Clown” Crahan caught up with producer Rick Rubin for a newly released episode of the ‘Tetragrammaton With Rick Rubin‘ podcast. While the chat didn’t really touch upon their less than positive collective experience working together on the Rick Rubin-produced “Vol. 3: (The Subliminal Verses)“, it did span much of the life of Clown and the various eras of the Iowan masked metal phenomenon.
In the lengthy chat, Clown speaks openly about the sacrifices he’s made for the group over the decades, including the various injuries that have ensued. In addition to confirming that he continues to suffer from intense backpain to this day, Clown at one point also went on to reveal that he requires heart surgery. He only found out about that development after the band’s last tour, as he went on to say [transcribed by theprp.com]:
“You know Slipknot is good for me, always has been. And I hate that. I hate that it keeps me alive. You know what I mean, Rick? Like it keeps me alive. It makes me drink water. It makes me… It gets the bad smoke that I had once out of me. It gets the tox… you know, it keeps me alive. It gives me desire. It gives me will. Gives me purpose. And I can’t stand it. It’s such a priority of existence. And I have to do it.
I have a skipping heart and I got to get a surgery. And I found this out after my last tour. I went in, I wasn’t feeling good, and I went in and the nurse was trying to get an EKG thing going on me or whatever and it just wasn’t happening. I kind of fell asleep and I woke up. I’m like, ‘Are you going to get this thing?’ And she’s like, ‘Oh, it’s not working.’ They thought I was having a heart attack right there. Anyway, my heart skips and apparently I’ve taught myself to be like a cross country runner.
So, I’m overweight and my brain is so strong that it tells this stuff what to do. So, my standing heart rate at night is 43 and during the day I get down to 33. [It] hasn’t happened since I’ve been here with you, which is good, because I’ll go from ‘on’, to just straight up I feel like I’m dying. So, I got to get a surgery. It’s a very easy surgery. You’re usually out on the same day. It’s not like they rip you open. This is something about the electricity.
But at first, they thought maybe I needed a pacemaker. And I was like, ‘Doc, listen, I get a pacemaker. I’m done, right? Touring, Slipknot?’ So he goes, ‘Oh, no. You’re going to feel better.’ And I just I lost it. I was like, I can’t get out of this to save my life. I’m like, there is nothing, not even my heart. It’s going to be better because of Slipknot.
I got a concierge doctor because I’m in Slipknot and I’m able to go to levels and they’re like, ‘No, you’re going to feel better. You better get in shape because you got to do more now at 56.’ And it’s just like I just can’t believe it, man, that this was me. It’s wonderful. I’m lucky.”
Diving deeper into the band’s mythology elsewhere into the chat, Clown also spoke about the origins of the numerology the classic era of the band’s nine members adapted early on and the significance behind it. Those origins date back to the days when the band’s members would wear their own custom made jackets with their numbers out in public as, Clown recalled:
“…We wanted a gang, man. You know? It’s not about Shawn or Paul… It’s like, quit talking to me about my name. It’s like I’m here to talk about Slipknot. And this is one way to get to it, but I’m just number six. You know what I mean? It’s like we’re not here to talk about my military school upbringing. We’re here to talk about my dedication with my brothers. So, get with it. Ask me another sports question and I’m out.
It’s just that simple. And that’s how we did it. So, numbers, barcodes, couple logos. I wrote a piece…. You know, I was pretty diverse in numerology. And in a lot of tarot, six is the sun and nine is the moon. And you know, I just always knew six was nine upside down. And I just felt like everything happens at six, you know?
From zero to nine. And come back around, you know, one insinuates two. If you have two, why not three? Four is church. Five things are molecular. Six, it’s happening. It’s going on. It’s on fire. Seven, we’re on our way. We’re flying through the solar system. Eight, getting ready to sell out. Nine, we might as well be at zero; Insinuates rebirth.
So, like all things in Slipknot, I let all choose first. Yeah. I remember Mick going, ‘I’m number seven. It’s my lucky number. No one else can be seven.’ And it’s like, ‘Dude, you’re seven.’ Joey‘s like, ‘I’m number one.’ I’m like, ‘Of course you are. Of course you are.’ Paul‘s like, ‘Well, if he gets to be number one, I’m number two.’ And I’m like, ‘You guys are both dorks.’ I’m like, ‘Go ahead. You gotta be number one and two.’ They’re like, ‘What are you?’ And I’m like, ‘You know what I am? Everybody knows what I am.’ And everybody had already decided.
And they’re like, ‘What? What hasn’t been taken?’ I’m like, ‘Six, man.’ Because six is a pretty… It’s a number that’s around a lot. And you know, they take it dark, but I don’t care. Take it biblical. Take it where you need to, because I am. It’s what I’ve established, and it’s the only thing that’s going to represent me.
And then Sid got in the band and we’re like, you know, him and I were having a little moment — he’s very challenging, which I like. He pushes and you should be pushed, and he’s pushing me a little bit on the numbers, right? I go, ‘So what number are you?’ ‘Cause I’m ready to shut him down. You’re not going to be 12. You’re not going to be 13. He just looks me right in the face. He goes, ‘Zero.’
And at that moment, zero hadn’t even crossed my mind. And when he took it, it was like pages were written in a Bible. It was like, ‘Of course you are.’ So, if you think about it, we’re nine guys, but we’re 0 through eight. And then when the singer left, we had to have a singer. That added a number because we had to get someone to play the drums ’cause Corey wasn’t going to play those drums like the original singer.
Then Craig was an original guitar player who replaced Donnie. And when he left, it was like, ‘Don’t leave. Just be a sampler. Do the web stuff. Do be proactive, but you do the 808s. You do the ‘Here comes the pain’. Sid will do the scratching, the jungle.”
Crahan also reflected on the passing of the band’s bassist Paul Gray and drummer Joey Jordison, and the toll their deaths took on him. Speaking of the departed pair, Clown stated:
“…It’s been over 10 years now [since Paul died.] I reunited with his daughter October. She was in her mom’s belly when he passed and I wanted to wait until she was a little bit older. So, I’ve taken her to the GRAMMYS [in 2024] and she’s 13. So, it’s been a minute.”
He continued:
“He’s the whole reason I’m sitting here. He hijacked me from my art career. So many people innately wanted to say, so blindly, well, ‘You know, Paul would want you to go on’, and I wouldn’t say much. And then finally, I had enough. And I’m like, did anyone think that maybe I might not want to go on without my friend?
And just to be honest, sitting here today, man, I mean, you know, I don’t know how much more longer I have because it’s just, the new guys — They’re not new guys — They’re people. They’re my friends and I got them in and they’re great. They’re wonderful. I love them and we have such a great time and good things are happening.
But it’s no better than writing that song in a basement. It’s certainly no better without one of my best friends who was the genius. Him and Joey, they’re two of the greatest hard rock writers of all time. And here I am, you know, the art guy, you know?
[I] probably hate it the most because I have to do hard things. I have to be part of hard decisions. And I’m okay with doing that because I’m not going to live lies. I, for myself, I have to live truth. So I’m willing to partake in hard decisions in life, you know. But we I guess we we did it, you know?”
