A newly published interview with azcentral.com found Maynard James Keenan again expressing his dismay and bewilderment at the state of the world. Those topics arose amid talking about the latest album from alternative rock outfit Puscifer, “Normal Isn’t“. That record, released last month, offers up some wry observations and cautionary tales of where society has found itself.
When asked by the aforementioned publication on what he feels led us here, Keenan, who also fronts Tool and A Perfect Circle, felt one of the underlying causes is a long-failing education system. When asked how he felt we got to these unsettling times, Keenan replied:
“Uh, well, I mean, that’s. … That’s a long conversation, right? But you could see, historically, and of course, the whole point of education is for you to understand historically what that means. And so having been the son of an educator and his whole family are teachers as well, I watched in the ’80s, ’90s where the education system was undermined and, you know, you weren’t allowed to fail kids.
And so I feel like that just kind of lowers the education bar. That’s definitely historically where regimes start is to make sure that the people are kind of dumb and then they can just kind of tell them whatever they want and they don’t have the frame of reference or the tools to debunk what they’re being told, to critically think, to reason out puzzles, and then you end up here.”
In reply to being asked if he feels there’s a path back to the relative normalcy we once enjoyed, he offered:
“I think it will just have to come to a head. You know, right now, artistically, you have a lot of people kind of flipping out about AI. There’s a million arguments from many angles, but one of the ones is that it’s going to somehow replace actors, artists and all that. And of course, we heard that when drum machines were invented, and we heard that when the cameras were invented.
I think there’s other considerations of why AI is a bad idea. But as far as being replaced, I don’t feel like that’s legitimate. I guess my point is that it’s somehow. … This has to find a balance. It has to be a breaking point when you have religious fundamentalists calling all the shots. True believers are scary. It doesn’t sustain, right?
Historically, when you have people that are choosing violent oppressions, it doesn’t last. It lasts long enough to hurt and do damage, like generational damage, but it doesn’t last. So I don’t know. I don’t know where that breaking point is in this crashing wave. I’m hoping it’s soon, but I don’t know, man. It’s gonna get darker before it gets better.”
That led the discussion to how uncommon it is to now see increasingly younger individuals being drawn to religious fundamentalism. Keenan shared his thoughts on that as follows:
“The separation of church and state, I absolutely believe that, because when it comes to state, it’s like … it’s a mechanism. It’s a car, it’s an engine, it’s mechanics. There’s no faith involved. There’s a mechanics to this thing. You can have your faith, but it shouldn’t affect how your car runs. It shouldn’t affect any of that.
That’s why separating church and state is important to me, ‘cause the government should not be an emotional being. It should be a mechanism. It’s a machinery. No faith involved.”
Recent stops on the press cycle for “Normal Isn’t” have already seen voice his opposition against fundamentalist extremism. Appearing on an episode of ‘Kyle Meredith With…‘ last month, Keenan bluntly expressed his disdain for fundamental extremism of all kinds, stating:
“I’m always going… to be on the side of f*ck fundamentalist extremists in any way. Left, right, center, I don’t care if you’re a person who doesn’t understand humor and irony, and you mobilize on people who disagree with you. Um, sorry. That will always be the side that I go on is, fundamentalist extremists can go [f*cking] suck a bag of dicks. And you can quote me on that.”
In this new chat, Keenan also lamented the depths of manipulation that continually inflame the ongoing cultural wars and tribalism that run rampant online — particularly when it comes to the nefarious usage of bots and algorithms:
“…It’s just constant. And, you know, it’s, of course, a rabbit hole of conspiracy theory here, but there are entire bots and chat rooms that all their job was is to drive wedges between us online, just start fights that were not fights and then get people to join the fight, and then they just step back and let you guys fight over everything. Over anything. Litter boxes in classrooms. F*ck off.
Right down to like, you know, I think pronouns are important, but I don’t think that it’s a die on this hill fight. I respect whatever you want to call yourself. That’s completely fine. I don’t think you need to have a fistfight with a stranger in a parking lot that you met 30 seconds ago because they didn’t acknowledge your pronouns. That’s absurd.
I just feel like that algorithm and those bots have been feeding that over the last 10, 15 years. Just cultivating and just feeding that division and those just absolute silly fights.”
When it was pointed out that people seem more prone to arguing and fighting these days rather than even attempting honest discussion, Keenan offered:
“Yeah! Absolutely. Everything I just said, someone’s gonna take a piece of what I just said out of context, and there’s gonna be a fight online over five words instead of 200 words.”
As for why Keenan, who has tended to lean towards more absurdist and theatrical pursuits with Puscifer, opted to reflect modern times with this new album, he relayed:
“It just grabbed me. You know, you go in a certain direction with a song and then something comes up and it just changes the direction, especially nowadays. It’s an endless barrage of madness and inhumane behavior toward each other.”
