The Dillinger Escape Plan Singer On Piracy: “Nobody’s Doing Us A Favor By Buying Our Shirt After They Took Our Album”
The Dillinger Escape Plan frontman Greg Puciato recently replied to a fans question regarding piracy and what way the band sees the most money in terms of a purchase from a fan.
Speaking through Gregpuciato.com, the following exchange took place:
“Hey dude, just wondering about where the music as a physical product sits with you guys now. To exchange money, what’s best for you as an artist and me as a fan? Should I buy your album on iTunes? Download it for free and buy a t-shirt to make up for it? How does it all work these days?! Note: I bought your albums.
Anonymous
Hey I took this pair of shoes for free but it’s cool ‘cause I bought a coat right?
Do whatever you want….but the root is the music. THAT’s the most important…not a shirt. They are separate. We’re not forcing anyone to buy our music or our shirts. If you want one, that’s separate from the other.
Nobody’s doing us a favor by buying our shirt after they took our album. We’re not artists pandering on the side of the street hoping for someone’s “charity”. This is what we spend our LIVES doing, we spend MONTHS recording and up to a year writing.
Ethically, taking it for free is always wrong….even if you’re massive…but when you’re not a household Walmart name as a band…it hurts particularly more because every album is a greater sized fraction of the total. If people want “alternative” art, or smaller scenes, genres, or bands to be able to exist at a professional level of quality, they should treat them professionally and intellectual property with the same respect as tangible property.
As a listener it just doesn’t even make sense anymore to download music for free if digital is the way you wanna go. It’s way faster and more convenient to get it from Itunes or as a direct download from the artist, the prices are way lower than CD’s were in the past and you don’t have to pay shipping or drive to go and get it.
If you don’t care about “owning” the MP3’s, then use Spotify or something. There’s just really no excuse for bankrupting a scene or band you’re into anymore. If people care about the art that they like existing, then this attitude is important to adopt across the board.”
COMMENTS
I hope their next album features the world’s tiniest violin being played on a 4/15 time signature.
I’m disappointed this never got community service.
pfffffffffffffffffffffffft.
There’s no such thing as a 15th note, doofus.
But I get what you’re saying.
At first, I thought that this was one of the better answers I’ve read in regards to downloading music. Then I read it again and it’s nothing more than a typical by-the-book-answer that every musician supplies when asked their thoughts on downloading music.
At this point, downloading albums is so ingrained, you could sell your latest album for $1 and people would STILL download it for free – because they can.
So, rather than supplying the same generic answer about downloading music over and over again, maybe these artists would benefit by finding new, innovative ways to earn additional income.
Maybe because every artists generic answer is the right answer. I agree with Greg and every other artist that answers these questions just like this, 100%. Bands breakup all the time because they make NO MONEY. I don’t get people like you. I don’t see how this is really that hard to see.
Greg is absolutely right. It takes them how long to put out an album… and then each song is bought by loose pocket change on iTunes.
When it really comes down to it people really don’t give a shit.
The vast majority of you that gave my comment “Thumbs Down” missed the point entirely.
Whether it’s right or wrong, at this point in the game, like it or not, downloading music is more of the norm than the exception.
Do you really think that Greg’s comments resonated with people who download music? That it really will entice someone into buying the next DEP album rather than downloading it?
The answer is pretty simple: Probably not.
The next DEP album will come out and within hours (if it hasn’t leaked out prior to the release date), it will be all over the torrent sites and people will be leeching it.
Why?
Simply because they can is about the simplest answer possible.
When it comes to download music, people have a very cavalier attitude. Whether it’s leftover hatred towards the RIAA over the whole Napster fiasco or something else entirely, I have no idea and I’m sure many of the people who habitually download music couldn’t provide you with a better answer themselves, other than it’s something they’ve always done.
So, what can bands do?
Again, I have no idea…but rather than beating the “Downloading Bad” horse, I really think that bands need to start thinking outside of the box and come up with new ideas to encourage people to BUY their albums (either physically OR electronically) rather than downloading them for free.
U can try defending your point all day but always EXPECT thumbs down. No sense in writing a novel to try and change peoples opinions.
I totally get what you’re saying, but Greg’s answer came from a fan asking him “what is the best way?” Quite frankly, Greg could have kept it at this… “You give me the money, I give you the new album.” Simple as that. That’s how EVERYTHING ELSE WORKS. That’s how people get paid. That’s how bands pay for recording. That’s how they stay on the road. Money is a bitch and WE ALL have to have it. That’s why you, me, and everyone else works a job. Money. Some just so happened to be a little more bad ass of a job like playing music for the DEP.
As for coming up with new ways to entice people to purchase music… I think bands have done that with the crazy pre-ordering bundles they come up with and even with that being done as long as torrent sites and whatever the hell else there is out there people use to download music they will continue to do so no matter what.
“Do you really think that Greg’s comments resonated with people who download music? That it really will entice someone into buying the next DEP album rather than downloading it?”
As a no-apologies-offered chronic torrent downloader, I can answer your question definitely. Abso-FUCKING-lutely…. not. I’ll take it for free and only the largely overburdened RIAA can do a DAMN thing about it. Oh, and I don’t plan on buying any of your shitty t-shirts that make me look like a greasy bum in a month when the black bleaches out either. If you’re lucky, I’ll pay to see you at the one or two concerts a year I actually attend.
It ain’t popular, but my child needs the money more than these starving artists do. They got two good arms, don’t they? Pick up a hammer and start hanging drywall if you don’t like the terms of our arrangement.
Gas stations don’t make money selling gas, they make money selling twinkies and Mt. Dew.
In Canada they make quite enough money selling gas, trust me.
One of my good friends used to own a gas station. He had it for 1 year and was forced to sell it back to the previous owners. He came out exactly even when he ended up selling it back to them. You really don’t make any money owning a gas station. The only good thing that came out of it was the shitty gas station food, slurpees and all the scratch offs we went through.
If I do download an album 1) I have no idea who they are and I am just previewing it before buying 2). The shows coming up and ill just pick up a copy at the merch table. I guess the limited music I download is previewing or borrowing. Or I bought vinyl and don’t want to buy a cd
I won’t buy anything where the principal writers/performers are dead.
Otherwise, I subscribe to your 1 and 2. On occasion I’ll get something early with full intentions to buy it shortly after release, or on a buying binge in the next X amount of time.
You can’t download shoes, silly.
Yes Greg I understand your band would make more money if fans bought both the album AND the t-shirt. But a fan downloading the album for free and buying a t-shirt is still better for your band than a fan downloading the album for free and buying nothing.
Well I guess I dont understand where you are coming from man.. buying and album vs buying band merch, take either or? how about both! Greg’s point is well taken with me. Music is the most important, anything else is just frosting on the cake. Iam happy to say that I havent downloaded any pirated music ever, I am dead serious. its either on the store shelf or on itunes for me. I just dont see how its right. what gives anybody the right to steal music. the only exception of course is authorized free downloads via an official band site. Jenkem Dealer no offense at all man but I just dont get your point of view
I own over 500 CDs, and 100 vinyl. Lets not forget the 100gig of music that’s 93% pirated(and the other 200gigs of pirated music I’ve lost over the years). Is it better if I owned 50(fuck, 200?) CDs and a couple singles from I-tunes, and never pirated music?
If your not a “music person”, buying music just doesn’t make sense, as the price of EVERYTHING you need to live is almost twice as expensive as it was 10 years ago. Music is now seen as disposable.
I don’t get these fucking arguments. People who pirate the most music also tend to be the ones who put more money into the system. Sorry I downloaded your latest album – I guess buying your previous four releases doesn’t matter either. Sorry I don’t have 35$ to give every band I like every year.
For sure, Stenny.
You do what you can, you try to be honest, and you gotsta have the music.
Is that a frog being torpedoed out an elephant trunk? That’s remarkable!
dillingerl, you are one of the good ones left who actually buys albums. That’s awesome. I wish more people did. As for me, I wish I had the money to buy everything. But I have no money to spare right now. It would be irresponsible of me to spend $15 on something I could have for free within 3 minutes of searching and downloading. Instead, that $15 goes towards my bills, food and gas money.
I do get Greg’s point that selling the album is more important than selling the t-shirt (and that best case scenario someone buys album AND t-shirt), but selling the t-shirt alone is better than nothing. If people didn’t buy their albums OR their t-shirts they’d be a bit fucked, wouldn’t they?
I agree with everything he says. If I was an artist, I can say early on in my career I would not care how my creations were distributed, the more people that had them the better known I would become, and maybe I could make a living doing what I love. But then the scales tip and I realize thousands of people would take my idea and profit from reselling my creation while I struggle to pay my bills. Yeah, I’d be pissed
Btw I think it is a bad idea, certainly bad taste, to tell a performing artist you downloaded their material for free.
Who downloads an album to resell??? That doesn’t happen. People don’t sell bootleg albums on the streets anymore (movies, yes, but not albums)
I understand your point, but I was referring to anyone that profits from running a web service with the specific intent of uploading/ downloading music, movies or art for free without paying the creator any royalties. I don’t have a name in mind, since I don’t use theses services, but they are in the same league as Stub Hub, which is just a ticket scalper pretending to be a legitimate business model.
Except they’re not, because they’re almost always making things available for free. That’s entirely different (not talking moral judgments here) than reselling something for profit.
Except they DO make millions of dollars in ad revenue by “giving away” music. See: Megaupload/Kim Dotcom. If you don’t think Mediafire, Rapidshare, et al have something to gain from pirated music, you’re pretty naive.
Yeah I love TDEP and Greg but this was just an annoying way for him to get a point across to a fan. Look, ANY BAND should be greatful if a fan buys shit off their merch table, let alone buys a ticket to their show. When I love a band, I go to the show and head to the merch table to buy a couple of things. If that is not possible, I’ll order something from their website or whatever. I discover many bands by “previewing” them, so what on Faith No More’s good earth is all the fuss about?
I understand and (sort of) agree with most of the things he said. What I don’t like is the oversimplification of this debate. Not just with Greg, but any time it’s discussed. Like someone said earlier, what if I bought the vinyl copy already? What if I want to know the songs for the upcoming show and would rather buy it directly from you at your show? Here’s the one that no one ever addresses…what if I bought a used copy of your cd? You don’t get that money as an artist AND I legally own it. In the end, how is that ANY different than downloading it? (To the artist, I mean). Also, he’s dead wrong about digital costing less for the consumer. iTunes sells pretty much everything for $1 per song. Now, how is that more cost effective than than the cd I picked up for 7.99 new at best buy, for $5 at half price books or for literally a penny used in amazon?
*on. Stupid touchscreen phone.
Best Buy buys the music from the label. The cost on the shelf has nothing to do with the artists share. In fact, if these large companies don’t sell the CD’s, they can return them to the label. How this type of activity affects the artists share, I don’t know. But it’s probably not good.
In addition, large companies like Best Buy sell CD’s at a ridiculous price because it draws people into their stores to buy more shit. They see music as a vehicle to sell big ticket items like TV’s, sound systems, and MP3 players.
You’re right on about used music stores though if they do in fact not give any money back to the label somehow. I don’t know enough there to really comment…
Exactly. Which illustrates my point that its not as simple as “download bad, buying good.” Acquiring an album legally doesn’t always mean that it’s going to positively affect the artist. And if it doesn’t, how is downloading any worse? Because of that, i do feel like buying a shirt at your merch table IS doing you a favor in a lot of cases. I could talk about this issue for hours. The whole thing is just a huge cluster fuck. I mean, look at how they judge record sales?? It’s such a joke.
I feel like judge was the wrong word. Determine or calculate is more accurate.
What if I download your album, go see you in concert, buy a shirt, buy a vinyl (because I don’t have a fancy record player that can rip to mp3)? Does that meet the sufficient level of purchase to be a good fan? What if I go see you again and again, every time you come near my city?
Well Greg I guess I wont buy your album our your shirt now ya douche. If ETID can hit top 40 then so can DEP. Your music is just not as good as it once was. Maybe look to a glassjaw on how to get people fired up about buying a release.
@Abe agreed sir.
At this point, if I have a band that puts out a great album and I want to support them, I’ll buy the vinyl. I refuse to pay money for air (mp3s) that I have no actual ownership of (can’t resell) if I can avoid it in the least. If one of those bands doesn’t give me an option to buy their album on vinyl, then that’s their stupid decision and their loss.
Maybe if musicians stopped treating their fans like fucking enemies things would get better for them. Maybe if more of them could pull their heads out of their asses and stop oversimplifying this down to “stealing is bad. Grrr,” and stop coming across as though all they care about is their bottom line, we could figure out a better modern way of doing things. Because, I hate to break it to them, the old system is not coming back, and good fucking riddance, regardless of what bullshit tactics the RIAA wants to pull.
You’re a very very small minority so regardless of your outlook on a band putting thing on vinyl your demographic is a drop in the bucket. Most bands today make more money off of digital sales than physical. Unless you’re some shitbird pop rapper.
But someone like Dillinger would have more of a move on digital than anything else. All I ask that when digital is offered that they also offer th album in FLAC. Cause I like having a lossless back-up
Offering Lossless music is really the only thing keeping me buying CDs. I do honestly like having a physical product, and would pay more over a lossless digital one. I just can’t, and will never pay for crappy lossy mp3/aac/whatever.
I’d even use iTunes if they sold ALAC but far as I can tell the major labels are holding this up. Bandcamp FTW!
I own the Crosses stuff lossless and without a disk. It does kinda kill me though. That’s just the OCD.
I meant to hit thumbs up because I’d like the physical Crosses, too. Without paying $100.
It doesn’t have to be specifically vinyl releases. That’s not the only solution. But they do need to provide a product that customers want. That’s just basic commerce. Right now itunes has made digital a standard; I don’t think that’s sustainable or all that appealing from a customer standpoint.
I would totally download a car.
C’mon guys, if you don’t buy the album, I can only inject half my steroid regiment.
The 3 thumbs down have to be from front men equally as lame as this dude..probably Drainman,Blythe and Durst.
Giving even half a shit about your thumbs count is totally fucking weak. It’s like taking polls at the office of what people thought of your most recent amusing antecdote.
for example: the chariot is playing e.t.i.d. xmas show. so i want to get caught up on their catalogue. so instead of draggin my ass around to stores that dont carry that cd i downloaded it and if i like it i am buying it at the merch table, going to enjoy the music live instead of standing around trying to process it and missing out. so blah
I buy albums and I’ve downloaded for free but it’s pretty messed up when you think about it. I mean, these are bands we like alot and are pretty much just saying “Too bad I don’t care how you make money, but thanks for the free tunes.” Clearly this technology isn’t going away and I’m sure everyone get’s that. There really isn’t any other options though. iTunes and stuff is the only way but nobody really cares. As a fan just admit you’re wrong for stealing and go about your day instead trying to come up with bullshit excuses why you didn’t buy and support it. That’s the part that annoys me most about everyone saying “find new innovative ways.” There aren’t any! ha
I don’t disagree with him, but man, this guy is such a douche. Does anybody remember when he wrote like a 2000 word blog after he got a speeding ticket? About how there should be no speeding laws, and how taxes (just the concept of taxes in general) are total bullshit? Douchy McDoucherson.
That would be stealing government
BRB gotta illegally download some Jenna Haze pr0n.
Jenna Haze bro? Wasn’t she popular in the 90′s? Amy Reid all day.
Shoemakers, Tailors, Blacksmiths, Muscians.
World changes, and you gotta change with it or be eaten a live by evolution.
Music industry is not and never will be the same as it use to.
I find it funny how musicians so often talk about how wrong it is that people steal their music from the internet. Sure , its wrong. But if we make a least of all the things that are wrong in this word would piracy make it to the top100? I dont think so.
least would be list
This makes a surprising amount of sense.
This is the truth.
The world is changing, music industry must change with it.
Music should be free anyway, I mean if all musicians were billionaires they wouldn’t care about getting paid. They would just make music for free, because it is fun.
It soon may not be possible to be a musician as a career, or at least even less people than are able now.
Perhaps music should change into something like TV, where the music is free, and you can record it for free, but there are commercials everywhere.
If he’s gonna look at the issue from this angle, he needs to address that fans only have so much disposable income to spend on music-related stuff.
I make it a point to still buy CDs here and there, usually at concerts, but I still have a ways to go to catch up with everything I’ve downloaded. I like to think that catching up will ramp up eventually when I have more money to spend, but in the meantime, I will definitely prioritize concerts and shirts instead. If I made it a point to purchase all music I desire immediately, I simply wouldn’t have the money to spend on going to concerts and picking up merch instead. Bottom line, the music industry is gonna see the same amount of money from me whether I pirate or not. I like to think there’s some solace in knowing the money I give is going toward purchases that the actual band sees more revenue from.
That said, I realize there’s a whole other side to the argument factoring in how record sales affect bands’ ability to grow, and thus can be more beneficial to bands versus sales they see more direct money from. That can leave me feeling guilty, but it’s certainly not enough to make me give up concerts.
I fucking hate DEP yet I totally agree with this guy. Yeah, you fucked my mom and my sister and then burned down my house. When I woke up the next day, you brought me a bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit as recompense? The damage is already done. Pony up, quit being a pussy, and buy fucking records already. Like 10-15 dollars is really going to bankrupt you as a consumer. People get lazier and dumber by the day.
To my personal defense, I grew up during the ‘Nu-Metal’ era.
I have WASTED literally thousands of dollars on cd’s that weren’t worth a shit.
Now a days I download shit to see if it’s worth that 10-15 dollars before shelling it out.
If you make a quality product I’ll gladly buy it. (shit,I own like 30 Devin Townsend records)
But now a days, most of these cd’s aren’t worth the fucking bandwidth I used to download them, let alone my 10-15 mere dollars.
Then to top it off, don’t tell me that buying merch doesn’t help.
If it truly doesn’t then sell me that hoodie for 30 bucks,not 50.
This dude is just another asshole who likes to here himself speak..and I honestly hope the people who have proclaimed they won’t support this band anymore due to this rant,really stick their guns. I want to see how bad people not buying merch fucks up his bank account.
Just because things aren’t the way you want them to be,don’t alienate the people who do try to support your fucking band.
Terrible business practice from a cocksucker who thinks he’s a god damn genius. Get the fuck over yourself Greg.
Can I get you a Vicodin?
Thanks brotha.
Pressure 4-5, Crossfade, Darwins Waiting Room, Slaves on Dope, Simon Says, Boy Hits Car….. the good ol’ days of picking new releases up at Best Buy for $6.99
But Boy Hits Care were/are GOOD!
I must say I also own all of Dillinger CDs only one did I buy new and want second hand. As most of my cd collection. Is this stealing? I payed for it but the person before me who probably tossed it on iTunes and sold it to me is the only person who contributed to the artists pockets. Why pay ITunes 9.99 when best buy sells them for 7.99 and eBay sells them for $3.00. At least I try to pick um up at the show. And btw when I saw Dillinger I was so stoked to get a shirt but couldn’t pay $30 for the cheapest most generic shirt they had. It was like I was getting robbed.
I said pretty much the exact same thing earlier in this thread. Glad to see others see it the same way. Everyone conveniently ignores the fact that buying used CDs is exactly the same as downloading as far as the artist/label getting paid is concerned. But it’s totally legal. I buy tons of music used or super cheap. Preferably it’s from the band at the show but I’m in IN. No one comes here. Plus, who wants to know all the songs after the fact? The point being, record sales mean nothing. Befpre, It was all a way to pay the label for working the hype machine and handling distribution. As a model, that’s disappearing. It’s becoming more about the artist taking control of what is essentially their own small business. I’m rambling now but yeah…
I was really hyped to get product but $30 for a tee after a $40+ ticket is f$&ked how can he be serious about this? I hope he doesn’t speak for the other members if the band
Garbage men will always be needed Greg. Why don’t you go get your CDL and come pick up my trash?
I think there’s a canto for music pirates in Dante’s Inferno.
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