Maynard James Keenan, vocalist of multi-platinum alternative metal artists Tool & A Perfect Circle, as well as Puscifer, has once again sat down with Rick Beato for a newly shared interview. In it, he extensively outlines his creative process when coming up with new music and various other aspects about his approach to creating.
During the conversation he also discussed the upcoming fifth studio album from Puscifer, which will arrive in 2025. Regarding that, he stated [transcribed by theprp.com]:
“We don’t really like to talk about anything until we feel like we’re 90% there. So I can now say out loud there’s a Puscifer record coming in 2025. We’re 90% written, now we have to go back and start tracking stuff. We gotta track down [drummer] Gunnar Olsen and [drummer] Sarah Jones and get some drums down.
And [guitarist/bassist, etc.] Mat‘s [Mitchell] gonna get in there and play I believe… [vocalist, etc.] Carina [Round], you don’t even hear any of Carina‘s parts yet, she’s working on stuff. [Bassist] Greg Edwards, of course, again we talked about individual pieces that kind of stand alone as a part and a thing, rather than just a support piece.
You know, Greg Edwards doesn’t play support pieces. He plays interesting parts that stand alone. Same with Sarah, same with Mat, same with Carina.”
With Keenan currently set to head out for another leg of the ‘Sessanta‘ tour this spring in celebration of his 60th birthday last April, the acclaimed vocalist/entrepreneur also spoke of his longevity in the music scene, stating:
“Mick Jagger‘s still touring, so no excuses. The idea of retiring at 65. I feel like that’s… I don’t even know what the f*ck I would do, probably more things.”
The conversation also shifted to Keenan‘s opinions and tastes in music being effectively ‘siloed’ by algorithms and recommendation engines of social media and digital service providers. Keenan said of that:
“I feel like there’s the physical version of that. Before [it] was, ‘Well, this album, this album’s amazing because it’s the number one on the chart.’ Yeah, but Walmart only sells four albums. They don’t sell all of the albums. They sell these four. So does, you know, this place, and Target, and the radio stations only play the 20. So, yeah, of course, it’s number one, because it’s not being sold. These other [albums] aren’t being sold. Those are the ones being sold.
And I’ve kind of used this analogy with food, right? So if in your mind you’re thinking of your favorite restaurant, somewhere the food’s always great and it’s consistent and just above average, right? I’m not talking about McDonald’s. I’m talking about like, when you go sit down at a restaurant, you have a great food, or, like, a great burger place that you just go to.
Whatever that place is that you’re thinking of right now, on any given day of the week, a Walmart superstore sells more hot food than your favorite restaurant does in a week or a month.
You have to remember that the volume isn’t necessarily a measure of quality. Sometimes it’s unanimous, like, this movie is great, and everybody lines up because this film is great. But a lot of times it’s that natural laziness algorithm that they’re only going to put these up, or they’re only going to serve this, because, you know, they only want chicken tenders and fries anyway. So why have anything else? Why sell anything else?”
After Beato and Keenan both spoke of never consciously hearing any songs from Taylor Swift, Keenan further weighed in on how algorithms continue to inflate certain aspects of popular culture:
“It’s almost like there’s an absolute mechanism in place to amplify and loop narcissism in all ways. Like I’ve mentioned this before. If I’m going to do a video of something. I pull up my phone and I do a video [in landscape mode] because this is how I watch movies, and this is how life works. But if you do a video like this [in landscape mode] of somebody, there’s not enough of them in the screen. If you turn it this way [portrait mode,] I can get more of my ego in the screen, right?
So TikTok is huge because it’s just narcissism on steroids, because you’re in the screen. And I feel like that’s that loop, and now you’re only going to be fed that one thing that got traction. So, just like the four albums at Walmart, that’s all you’re going to see now. You’re not going to hear a great new band that has a song out unless somebody, literally, grabs you and puts it in your ear.”
When Beato brought up the ‘discovery mechanism’ of digital service providers being ‘broken’, Keenan responded:
“Yeah I think so people start kind of just becoming tribal. They end up kind of having their own little circle of people that they discover music amongst themselves, and they share it and they get into it, and nobody’s ever heard of it. Then, there’s the ones like you said that have billions of listens, but if I don’t if I don’t turn on Spotify or Pandora, I’m not gonna hear that.”
When asked if he had a streaming platform he preferred, he responded:
“I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, it’s called compact discs. It’s a disc. You’ve heard about these? They’re these discs. Have you heard of compact discs? CDs for short. CD. That’s still my medium. I got my new car and I’m like ‘Where do you put the [CD?]’. ‘Come over grandpa, lets get you to bed.’ I’m still listening to CDs. I have my phone and iPads that have downloaded music on. But I’m literally going online and finding my playlists.
‘Cause I won’t use the Spotify or Pandora, because it’s going to shove… I don’t want to hear the new U2 album. I just don’t. Remember that? Back when you got your iPhone, I was also like, ‘Why is U2 on my phone?’ [mimics shaking his phone] Get it out. So I do go through and do a lot of research, because I have multiple public places, restaurants and my academy.
So I’ll go through and I’ll kind of curate playlists for those places [on digital service providers], very specifically. I’ll go through and pick a bunch of songs for it, and remove things that don’t fit, but that way it’s a set playlist. You’re not going to all of a sudden, hear some garbage come through because of the algorithm suggesting something you didn’t want to have in.”
Speaking later in the conversation about his willingness to explore more modern music and pop music in general, he relayed:
“More modern [music,] you mentioned Taylor Swift and I just assumed that… You hear the word Billie Eilish, I don’t know what the f*ck that is. Then I just hear it in the same, I hear it along with like Bruno Mars and Beyoncé. It’s like, I’m the old dude. I don’t know what that is, right? I have no idea. It’s just these words that are spoken.
And then, you know, [‘True Detective: Night Country‘] puts a Billie Eilish song in the title track. And I go, ‘what’s this?’ Because you know her brother, his programming is incredible. I want to know more about that. So that might surprise people. Not all of it.
It’s definitely, uh, pop, TikTok-driven pop songs, but like, there’s some stuff in it that I go ‘I want to hear [that.] I want to know more about that.’ So that might be surprise people, that I actually mentioned the word Billie Eilish. I’m not 100% in. There’s pieces that I like.”
Beato also put Keenan in the hot seat, asking him which album from each of his three bands he felt nailed both the songs and the recording quality. He went on to reveal his choices as follows:
“With Tool? I think it would be, I think ‘Lateralus‘, there’s just a balance to it. There’s some sonics attached to ‘Ænima‘ — that’s a very popular one of our albums. But I feel like ‘Lateralus‘, there was some things happening with that that were unexpected.
A Perfect Circle, I think part of the new album, the first half of the new album [‘Eat The Elephant‘,] I feel like was there. But overall, I would think that ‘Thirteenth Step‘ is probably the one.
Puscifer, I feel like ‘Existential Reckoning‘ is the one, because we kind of had found our way to this. It’s an eccentric album. It’s definitely a sonic landscape. It’s a soundtrack more than it is an album. And I feel like, for what Puscifer is, that kind of is a good intro into the eccentric nature of Puscifer.
I think a lot of people respond to ‘Conditions Of My Parole‘ because it has more song-songs on it. But I think ‘Existential Reckoning‘ has like the more landscape, cinematic approach that I think is more the core of what Puscifer is.”
Pressed further for his thoughts on the marriage of music and sonic quality being delivered together, Keenan brought up The Mars Volta‘s debut album “De-loused In The Comatorium” as an example of something he felt fell short. That effort was co-produced by Rick Rubin (Slayer, System Of A Down) and the band’s own Omar Rodríguez-López. He said of that:
“There’s albums that I’ve gone back to listen to that because I want to, like, I think it’s the big The Mars Volta album… It was like, ‘ah, Mars Volta!’ But sonically, it’s just horrendous. It like it hurts your ears. It’s compressed to sh*t.
The energy on the album, and the way that they’re all playing together, his voice is just so incredible, and the playing, of course. But it’s because they’re so punk rock, and they wanted to record it all together in one f*cking room. It just hurts your brain, ’cause it’s just it’s so compressed, so you can’t listen to more than one and a half songs. It starts to really wear on you.
And then if you put that on iTunes, where it’s compressed even more. it just makes you crazy. You have to listen to it on vinyl, which, I don’t carry a f*cking turntable around, you know, I’m not going to do that. But that’s the one that like, that thing, bums me out, because I know that what’s happening in that room when they were doing it was, transcendent.
And for Rick, pulling his hair out, probably trying to get them to separate and make it work sonically. I’m sure he had a way bigger puzzle than he could ever solve on that.”
The next leg of the ‘Sessanta‘ tour, which finds A Perfect Circle, Primus and Puscifer sharing both the stage and bandmates each night for special collaborative sets, will run as follows:
04/24 Palm Springs, CA – Acrisure Arena
04/25 Las Vegas, NV – PH Live at Planet Hollywood
04/27 Albuquerque, NM – Isleta Amphitheater
04/29 San Antonio, TX – Freeman Coliseum
05/01 Tulsa, OK – BOK Center
05/02 Rogers, AR – Walmart AMP
05/04 Huntsville, AL – The Orion Amphitheater
05/06 Hollywood, FL – Hard Rock Live at Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Hollywood
05/08 Tampa, FL – MIDFLORIDA Credit Union Amphitheatre
05/10 Charlotte, NC – PNC Music Pavilion
05/11 Virginia Beach, VA – Veterans United Home Loans Amphitheater at Virginia Beach
05/14 Manchester, NH – SNHU Arena
05/15 Philadelphia, PA – TD Pavilion at The Mann Center
05/17 Holmdel, NJ – PNC Bank Arts Center
05/18 Fairfax, VA – EagleBank Arena
05/20 Pittsburgh, PA – Petersen Events Center
05/22 Toronto, ON – Budweiser Stage
05/24 Indianapolis, IN – Ruoff Music Center
05/25 Cleveland, OH – Blossom Music Center
05/28 Grand Rapids, MI – Van Andel Arena
05/29 St. Louis, MO – Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre
05/31 Milwaukee, WI – American Family Insurance Amphitheater
06/01 St. Paul, MN – Xcel Energy Center
06/03 Omaha, NE – Baxter Arena
06/06 Portland, OR – RV Inn Style Resorts Amphitheater
06/07 Auburn, WA – White River Amphitheatre
