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The Dillinger Escape Plan Frontman Shares His Thoughts On Filesharing

Responding to a fan submitted question regarding his thoughts on filesharing and its effects on the music industry, The Dillinger Escape Plan frontman Greg Puciato provided the following response:

“I don’t see file sharing as an evil…it’s silly to say that it has any intrinsic properties of good and evil at all anyway. It’s just a new form of technology that evolved outside of what the record industry and intellectual property law structure was prepared for at the time. That having been said…I think it’s necessary to swim with the tide and not against it. I think it’s time to accept and acknowledge that the CD is a dead format. Maybe not dead in the way of the 8 track but dead in the way vinyl is.

A CD now, should be thought of as a collector’s item, or a preferred way of listening if that is the individual’s preference, in which case he is already in the minority as most music is listened to via the MP3 format. A CD certainly sounds better than an MP3, just as a vinyl does, but it just lacks the infinitely superior convenience of the digital format.

As internet gets faster and hard drives get bigger, even 320 MP3s(which I am totally fine with for 90% of my listening) will be replaced by larger more sonically accurate files like WAVs or FLAC, so eventually a CD will hold no sonic vantage point at all, and will simply be a relic that we once used to transfer digital files. A relic that is no longer NEEDED, but like I said, may be “cool to have” in the way vinyl is. I buy vinyls and limited versions of albums that I really like or really mean something to me…and stick to MP3 for the rest.


Most people who listen to pop music only listen to singles anyway, and for that point most pop artists only really make singles anyway…the rest of the album is padding around the singles. Chances are if I hear some one hit wonder pop song I don’t really want or need the album. So the digital format is simply far more suited for the majority of peoples’ tastes. A killer full album is rare, and I think people know that.

The issue obviously isn’t the technology but the way in which it’s completely blindsided the world of intellectual property and the commerce/profit/royalty structure that the industry previously had in place, which, while usually grossly unfair to the artist and needing to change anyway, at least still upheld the concept that songs possessed a monetary value.

It’s tricky to get into trying to “police” the internet because the glory of the internet is that it really isn’t policed at all. The torrent sites and things like that can claim that they really have no legal responsibility for the things that are being torrented on them, in the way that Yahoo or Google can say that they aren’t responsible for what is being emailed back and forth from people with Yahoo or Google email accounts, or if I can read the recipe for meth by using one of their search engines.

All of that being said, the choice of whether to release music for free, should be the artist’s, just as if I ran a coffee shop and wanted to give away free coffee samples or have a free coffee day that should be my choice, not the choice of the consumer. At no point would it be acceptable for the consumer to just come in and take the coffee…but that is exactly what would happen to the seller of any good if there were no laws or means of or threat of enforcement of those laws.

I think that a lot of people would have a natural conscience enough to just feel bad about stealing the coffee/groceries/auto parts/whatever is being sold…and would pay anyway. However, like anything, once you do something once with no consequence, you do it again, and then again, and then eventually feel nothing. Even harder is trying to get people to pay who have grown up NEVER paying(many kids now). As “uncool” as it sounds though…something needs to happen.

Artists would not be able to survive, and the whole argument of “well they can still tour and sell merch” ONLY holds up at all because people have to BUY tickets and merch! If you could just walk into our show for free and then also just walk away from our merch table and grab a shirt for free….we would just be done. People only spend around twenty percent of what they spent ten years ago on music…so I’m sure you can imagine that it has cut into our financial means more than substantially, as well as music stores, companies, producers, etc.

I’ve watched someone like Steve Evetts(DEP producer…among many other bands) for example…absolutely one of the best at his craft…and I’ve seen how he has had to accept less and less pay for doing the same amount of work. This is someone who doesn’t have the ability to go on tour and sell merch. The amount of revenue a record company/band expects to generate or does generate is the only indicator of how much he receives. People don’t think of that when they use the whole “well a band can still tour” argument. Any argument is just an argument to appease a guilty conscience and try to pretend that it isn’t wrong…because we all still just wanna be able to get things for free.

Having said all of that, I think the corner is about to turn. You can get movies just as easily as albums, and I think now that the movie industry is about to be hugely impacted by file sharing, and eventually the book/written industry as wel(since the advent of the kindle and people reading books on their Ipads), people are having a major “oh shit” moment. I think that what, realistically, needs to happen, is a combination of things.

First off, bands and record companies need to let go of the idea of the CD as the product. The CD is not the product, it’s a means to distribute the product, and that means, like I was saying before, needs to be accepted as being outdated, and treated as a collector’s item. Bands and record companies need to embrace the idea of most of the quantity of their sales coming from digital, and then have a selection of ALL limited other versions.

Limited CD, more limited digipack that comes with cooler shit, even more limited vinyl, and then an extremely limited box set or something rad that is just for the real blood and guts fans, and then just random limited album related things that are cool for the band to do and cool for the fans to have.

It strengthens the bond between band and fans and just feels so much better to do anyway.Second, and this is already happening and will continue to increase, internet service providers need to monitor heavy users and see if there is illegal content being downloaded at large volumes like artist discographies and so forth. If they do see that is happening, they should send a warning letter and then on the second time suspend service for a period of time.

The intellectual property laws need to change so that torrent sites aren’t under the same bracket as email providers. Sending one message or a song to one other person or some of your friends is clearly different than hosting an album or movie for an infinite number of people to download. Right now on BTJunkie the Option Paralysis album is being downloaded/leeched by 9 people.

At ten bucks an album, that’s ninety bucks. An hour from now it will be 10 new people. Two hours from now, 7 new people….and so on. Our album’s been out for a year. A year ago the number of people downloading it was far more. That revenue loss doesn’t just affect us, but the entire industry, and we are nothing compared to larger bands as far as total revenue, but the percentage of loss hits bands of our size much harder than it does a Walmart band.

A torrent site should be held accountable for illegal trading of copywritten material and cease and desist or immediate shut down orders should be sent to those found to be major violation.

Record companies need to take precaution and hire private companies that do nothing but kill mediafire links and torrents. Those companies DO exist and have recently worked records like the Sleigh Bells record and the last Deftones’ last album and those records were nearly impossible to find online in the first couple of months.

Most importantly, bands need to do good shit! Be a real band, give a shit about what you are doing, have high standards and quality control and have pride in releasing good material in quality formats.

This is a giant conversation that is only gonna get more interesting as technology continues to transform the industry. Most people will have Iphones. Most people will use their Iphones as Ipods. Most people if they want a song they hear, will use an app to identify the artist, and immediately download it to their Itunes for 99 cents or whatever.

Everything is moving at light speed now and everyone needs to catch up to the times or face extinction, and that is the cold reality but I embrace it…there just needs to be protection of the creator/inventor/artist or else there will be no content for people to enjoy. File sharing is amazing because it eliminates the need for a middle man distributor like a record company and allows instant and easy transfer from artist to listener. Without protection though, it doesn’t just cut out the middle man, it cuts out the artist.

This was a bit of a ramble but it’s a subject near and dear to my heart as it is how me and most of my friends make the meager living that we do. People need to stop with the whole misinterpretation of “giving shit away for free is punk as fuck” attitude. Yeah…”giving” it away IS punk as fuck. It’s only giving when it’s your choice to give it, though.

TAKING shit from someone who didn’t want you to have it for free…that is the opposite of punk and the opposite of supporting any kind of scene or movement that you claim to. Okay okay…enough rambling. We’re an hour away from Colorado Springs and Jeff is diming some crust punk and trying to mosh me. Gotta go.”

COMMENTS

42
    • avatar
    • loldotcom     April 10, 2011 at 8:40 pm

      Decent rant, and coming from an actual artist that is affected by filesharing more than misc pop star with millions, carries a bit more weight when read.

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    • Agreed, though I really don’t think more regulation is actually the answer. Regulating the internet is a slippery slope, and it’s also pretty much impossible without sacrificing net neutrality.

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    • brettgjaw     April 10, 2011 at 9:32 pm

      Alot of what Greg said I agree with, although vinyl is far from a dead format. Statistics show vinyl sales have significantly risen in the last 4 years.

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    • They Ate Their Macaroons in Silence     April 10, 2011 at 9:34 pm

      “Option Paralysis” digi-pack almost caused me a traffic accident.
      & speaking of collecting, I just found the “A Very Special Christmas” with Mellencamp, Run DMC, The Boss and more @ Hasting’s for $3, very dank.

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    • I agree with most of what he said. The exceptions are that vinyl is very much thriving. Unfortunately the majors haven’t caught on. I also don’t think CDs should disappear. I like the idea of more collector box sets and stuff like that. I preordered the Option Paralysis box set. I even own the vinyl and digipack.
      The big issue seems to be the kids that have grown up with file sharing who think everything should be free. I download but I also spend alot of money on the bands I love.
      I’d love to see bands start doing like Jonah Matranga and make their own stuff for fans, like his Unique Recordings and homemade albums. That to me is punk rock.

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    • grantbrochill     April 11, 2011 at 6:37 am

      Greg seems like a great guy. Real down to earth and reasonable. I especially like the persepctive he brings to the discussion. It’s not all about the money; it’s also about the artists’ ability to control their crafts. The thing is just that technology is developing way faster than the law can. The RIAA or MPAA gets one site shut down, and by that time 20 more have replaced it. And it’s tough, because you can’t just say sites such as Mediafire needs to be stopped, because they have legitimate purposes. Even some artists use these sites to host their music for free and distribute to fans. I guess, like with the Napster/LimeWire cases, it will come down to the proportion of legal uses vs. illegal uses, but that seems like it would be quite difficult to calculate with passwords and misleading descriptions and whatnot. Interesting times ahead!

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    • grantbrochill     April 11, 2011 at 6:48 am

      With that said, the one thing I don’t like about Greg’s stance is how “real blood and guts” fans are the ones who buy the most expensive products. To me, the enjoyment of music and its various levels is a personal experience, not a commodity. If you’re a huge fan of DEP or whomever, you don’t have to prove that by buying everything they put out. Obviously the people who do purchase the “special extra limited deluxe” versions of CDs are going to be bigger fans, but that’s not what makes them that way. It’s their passion for/connection with the music that makes them bigger fans, not their receipts.

      I understand what he’s saying, but to me, it’s flawed to say the people most dedicated to a band or artist are those who spend the most.

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    • southpawchew     April 11, 2011 at 7:16 am

      I am proud to say that I own a real copy of every cd they released, and I pay to download some stuff for cheap like .09 cents a song but when I see that band comes to tour then I go there buy a shirt and the music I already had, some bands are hard to buy from on the net cause of shipping costs so that kept me way from a few releases but if u like um support um!

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    • dcthestar     April 11, 2011 at 7:42 am

      he talks about deftones last album being hard to find before it came out?? That thing leaked like 3-4 months before it came out. That was one of the worst leaks of last year for amount of time until release wise.

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    • This was an article that I had to read, being an avid DEP fan and collector of their music. I found it to be very interesting. I downloaded the album before it came out; where as I own all three prints of the vinyl, the insane box set that was worth the money due to it’s creative/ complex design. I bought all their cd’s and vinyls.

      I had napster when it came out, if it wasn’t for napster, hundreds of bands wouldn’t have made hundreds of dollars off of myself, or other people. i.e. Mushroomhead. I have purchased all their cd’s and vinyls and dvds. Been to countless numbers of their shows, met them, smoked them out. I wouldn’t have heard of them until probably 2001 or so, when all these Slipknot fans accused them of being a carbon-copy.

      I hope cd’s and vinyl’s never stop being printed. I like supporting other artists as a musician myself. I download it, and then buy it. That’s probably due to the lack of patience and much built up hype.

      I’m not really a fan of the digital age, even though I use it. Musicians lose a lot of money, that’s why they have to go out and tour, sell merch; t-shirts, cd’s and whatnot. Musicians would cease without touring, but then again, I’m wrong, :Wumpscut: never tours, but they make crazy box sets for us collectors.

      For some fucked up reason, I kind of like the producers are accepting offers for lower pay.

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    • southpawchew     April 11, 2011 at 11:17 am

      I think slot of people forget that alot of shows that acts play sell maybe like 20-tickets when I saw the cancer bats there was probably 30-40 people there same with trap them ect I have no idea how u make “$” doing such a small show and splitting it with 5 other bands

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    • buttcrackguy     April 11, 2011 at 2:09 pm

      Like dcthestar I found the comment about the Deftones leak was way off, another was where he mentioned torrent sites host files, which they do not. I do respect his opinion though. And not that it is his fault, but albums were overpriced, and 12-15 years ago the industry had the opportunity to correct it, but did not. Fans are getting raped too; how about $40 or more for a ticket, $10-$20 for parking at big venues, $12 beers, $35-$40 t-shirts…

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    • cayleforapocalypse     April 11, 2011 at 3:14 pm

      Most of you on here are missing a major point he spelled out pretty clearly: File sharing isn’t bad. The whole “I never would have heard this band if it wasn’t for the free download” argument is fine, but the artist should be able to choose if they want to give away their product for free or not (Myspace or Facebook usually has enough free tracks posted for you to decide if you like the band or not though). It’s not your right to go take the music DEP created. People are also absolutely blind to the fact that only about 1% of bands that tour make money at it. So if people don’t start buying music in some sort of format soon, their favorite artists won’t make any more music or tour any more. That’s reality.

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    • I do agree with the price for tickets, I stopped going to Ozzfest in 2004 because ticket prices jumped 10 dollars ev-er-y year. Shirts, I don’t really listen to bands that much anymore that charge more than $20 bucks a ticket, or $15 a shirt. Those are mostly bands on big corporate labels.

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    • They Ate Their Macaroons in Silence     April 11, 2011 at 5:39 pm

      I hardly buy shirts at shows because they’re always trite-ass skulls on black tees. I buy lots of CDs though.
      @NateUSA: How’d you like the remote control in the box set?

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    • I love the fact that I can check out an album before I buy it. Back in the day if you were looking for new music you would be taking a chance. I bought some bad albums in high school, napster hit in ’99 my senior year, and never again did I have to buy music I didn’t love. Now albums leak before street dates, and I’ll download it, if it’s good I’ll buy it. I still love opening a CD and reading the liner notes, I just got into vinyl through the limited edition GlassJAw 7″s, I go to 20 shows a year, and buy merch. The only thing I miss is getting together with friends on an album release date (the last time involved Lateralus and a lot of ecstasy in 2001, good times), but that’s about it

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    • fucking right jay! i’m still a fan of listening parties. glassjaw’s coloring book was a quarter of green and midnight highway joyride. DEP’s option paralysis was a 3 footer at 1am, annoying my roommate with an hour of fucking headbanging. having the CD is more of a collector experience, same with the vinyl. mp3s and whatever still work, they scratch the itch while you wait for the presale to finally ship. and also, the ‘blood and guts’ fan reference is more than accurate, i know i shat myself at the chance for the deluxe box set for option paralysis

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    • @ American_Natemare. Jonah Matranga is fucking cool. got to meet him once after he opened the show for further seems forever. I was the ass screaming far song’s at him. what are some groovy Envy cds ti check out? btw. and is minus -jesus christ bobby worth my time? I remember when it came out, just never listened in.

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    • @Will. Jonah is super cool. That dude will play anything live and is easily the nicest dude ever. Envy is kinda hard to pin down. My favorite is A Dead Sinking Story. And Jesus Christ Bobby by Minus is the only one worth hearing. They got kinda cock rock on the next album.

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    • 9 Ounce Prime     April 14, 2011 at 6:45 am

      Anyone who can afford to fill 320GB with tracks he paid for is doing pretty damn well for himself. Don’t cry about your job not paying what it used to in the same rant where you start popping wheelies about how you can afford things like $50,000 worth of digital music on your drive. Prick.

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    • 9 Ounce Prime     April 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm

      woops. it was early, i was tired. i read it too quickly. i can own up to my mistakes. see, when you have to check in before noon so that you can go to work (unlike what seems to be the case with a lot of kids on this shite) you can see hard drive 320 90% and other shit all just run together. still… if you’re unhappy with your income, find a new job.

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    • grantbrochill     April 14, 2011 at 3:18 pm

      @9 Ounce Prime – Why should someone find a new job just because of income? Wouldn’t that merely cure the conditions, not the problem? I think the best option, if you are an artist and are unhappy with pirating, is to address the issue head on, not give up and do something else. Especially if you enjoy your craft, as I’m sure Greg does.

      Also, I’d love to see your evidence for the case on PRP kids not having to work before noon.

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    • MetalMusicAddict     April 14, 2011 at 7:56 pm

      I will continue to buy CD’s/physical digital media until they stop making ‘em. I will also only ever buy lossless music. Buying an album on iTunes for $10 or so when I can buy a CD for $13 or so in a store (convert to FLAC) is just mental.

      I just don’t see CD’s dying off any time soon. Just getting more rare.

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    • robichaud1     April 15, 2011 at 8:04 am

      I just pared down my collection by about 25% (approx. 200 CDs). I just have too much shit, it’s taking up room, and it’s a bitch to move. Got me an external hard drive for the sold ones.
      I’ll still spring for physical copies of my favourite bands, but otherwise, I’m fine with iTunes or, better yet, downloading directly from band sites, or buying at their shows.

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    • because I live in a small town (and the independent store left ages ago) I buy almost exclusively off itunes. sometimes, if the cd is older I will buy it used from amazon. I got Helmet’s “betty” for .02 cents. killer!

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    • They Ate Their Macaroons in Silence     April 16, 2011 at 10:26 pm

      But dude, you spent another $2.99 for shipping. I found “Betty” @ the pawn shop for $2.99.. I guess we just both got a bomb ass deal anyways. You probably spent about 13cents less since WA has the highest sales tax

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    • MetalMusicAddict     April 18, 2011 at 9:33 am

      Pawn shops are great for filling your back-catalog items. Lots of used bookstores also carry CDs. There’s also some great online used shops. SecondSpin is one.

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    • adamonfire     April 18, 2011 at 10:11 am

      …….. I’d have to assume a decent amount of people with jobs also have these crazy things called computers on their desk – which is where I’m posting from right now…..

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    • Good old Betty, hey. I remember getting that for my 16th birthday the day before I went and saw Faith No More for the first time. King for a Day tour. Such an aural explosion those couple of days.

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